Author Topic: Won't save  (Read 305 times)

j-wetzel

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Won't save
« on: July 19, 2018, 08:28:41 AM »
DesignCad 3DMax, v.24  (Yes, I know I'm out of date,)

After many years of peace, I recently found that I need to make a little 3D drawing.  After considerable effort, I've managed to remember enough to make the drawing, and I saved it.  But when I try to open it later, the warning appears that the file is in use by someone else, and it will be opened in read only mode.  But there is nobody else.  What is going on?
--Jack

Dr PR

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 09:03:01 AM »
The "someone" is another program, or even Windows with an "Open With" dialog open but behind another window or minimized.

Have you accidentally opened two copies of DesignCAD with the file open?

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

j-wetzel

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 09:31:54 AM »
The "someone" is another program, or even Windows with an "Open With" dialog open but behind another window or minimized.

Have you accidentally opened two copies of DesignCAD with the file open?

Phil

Thanks for the suggestion, Dr PR; not to my knowledge, but I suppose it's possible.  There seems to be no way to tell what program has opened a file, at least no way that I know of.  Task Manager shows just one DesignCad program running.  Restarting the computer didn't clear the problem, so maybe it's something else?  Whatever it is, it's annoying.
--Jack

adriank

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 09:45:51 AM »
While it's open as read only can you 'save as' with a new name and get round the problem that way?

Adrian

Bob P

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 10:47:08 AM »
Try locating the file in a file manager and deleting the hidden lock file associated with the file. You must enable "Show hidden files" to see the lock file.

Dr PR

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 02:51:25 PM »
Many poorly written programs do not release system resources when they close, and Microsoft programmers do not have the intelligence to solve the problem. Then if another program tries to open the same file the misbehaving program (or another copy of it) tries to open the file it will be read only.

Photoshop is notorious for this problem, but that doesn't have anything to do with DesignCAD unless your file has an embedded image file that Photoshop (or another photo editing program) has recently edited.

However, since you rebooted that would have solved the frozen resources and read only problem. Must be something else.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Lar

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2018, 04:23:10 PM »

This use to happen to me quite often with dcad. It took about a year or 2 of it happening randomly for me to deduce that it was a side effect of my 'screen full of floating toolboxes'.


Every now and then some of my toolboxes that I remember being visible (after a 'hide/restore toolboxes' command) would not visible onscreen, so I would click the status bar to open the one I need right then. If that toolbox was active-but-invisible, reopening it would cause dcad to disappear. Quite naturally I would alt+tab to try find dcad but it would be nowhere to be found, so quite naturally I would reopen dcad then reopen the drawing. The drawing would open but I would get the 'file is already in use' message so can't save. I would close and reopen dcad, close and reopen the computer, all to no avail. the drawing would always open with the 'in use' message. I had to 'save-as' then open the new copy to be able to save in peace. I would later on find that even if the file was copied to other storage systems and opened on other computers the message would still pop up. It was eternal.


(...or maybe it happened the other way: dcad files that I hadn't opened in years were opening with that message, and after years of randomness I deduced it was a side effect of my 'screen full of floating toolboxes...')


Once I figured out that those 'eternally-in-use' files had something to do with dcad disappearing I realized that the files were still flagged by Windows, and therefore dcad had to still be active some where when it disappeared. By this time I knew that once I made any other program active the disappeared dcad was gone for good. So, I had to do something to access dcad without activating any other program. When it next happened I immediately pressed the alt key, to activate the menu, then F to open the File menu. Dcad's File menu did open so I pressed '1', for #1 on the 'recent files' list, which would be the drawing I was working on when dcad disappeared (fyi, you can use the recent file list to bring background files to the front when more than one file is open). Dcad popped back into view, enabling me to work, save and close the file properly and avoid any further occurrence of those dreaded eternally-in-use files.


This probably is not the reason it happened to j-w but a clue as to why it did may be in there somewhere.

Lar




j-wetzel

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2018, 02:04:09 PM »
Thanks so much for that.  I've managed to work around the difficulty by simply saving the file as something else, deleting the old file, and then renaming the new file with the old one's name.  It's weird, but it works; and that's far from the only thing that's weird about windows.
Thanks again to all that responded.   You folks have the best support operation on the net.
--Jack

Rob S

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 09:04:50 PM »
Let it be known once again that almost none of this support comes from IMSI/Designcad. 

Admittedly it would be hard to provide paid support for a <100 vertical market program.  Money better spent developing and fixing  :)

It is entirely based on many long time user responses who take pleasure in volunteering help to others while sometimes discovering the odd new trick in the process.

I agree that this forum is one of the finest features of Designcad.
User since Pro-design

Dr PR

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 11:38:17 PM »
From what Lar has said it certainly appears that Windows thinks part of DesignCAD is still operating with the problem file open, thereby preventing another copy of DesignCAD from editing it.

Another similar problem in Windows is with USB memory devices. If Windows thinks a file on the USB memory is being used by another program it will not eject/unmount the USB device. And there are several things that make Windows think files on a USB device are being used by another program:

1. The file is open in another program, and possibly changes have not been made, so you have to save the file and close the program.

2. A program has saved the file and closed it but has not released the resources that were used while editing the file. The file is still saved in system RAM and Windows still associates that memory with the program.

Photoshop is notorious for this. Even after you have saved and closed a file in Photoshop the image in memory ia still associated  with Photoshop because the bozos who wrote Photoshop failed to release the system resources. So you cannot dismount a USB drive containing a file saved from Photoshop to the USB device until Photoshop is closed. Actually, I don't think you can unmount the USB device even if the file was saved to a hard drive and then copied to the USB device.

This is not a problem with DesignCAD.

3. The program (DesignCAD) has gone into never-never-land while editing the program and has never released the system resources. Windows thinks DesignCAD is still running (part of it is still out there somewhere) and using the system resources without saving the file. In this case you can open another instance of DesignCAD and open the file, but you can't edit it because Windows thinks the first instance of DesignCAD is still working on the file.

This is what seems to be happening. Lar's experiences seem to support this. When he selected the file from the recent files list the errant instance of DesignCAD was resurrected.

Saving the file under another name, closing DesignCAD, restarting and opening the renamed file would create another instance of the file and associated system resources that would not be associated with the errant copy of DesignCAD and it's associated resources, so you could work on the renamed file with no problems.

One way to verify this is to open Task Manager when the "in use by another program" problem occurs and see how many copies of DesignCAD Windows thinks are running. Shutting down the older copy should allow the newer copy to edit the file.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Lar

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Re: Won't save
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2018, 06:44:02 AM »
One way to verify this is to open Task Manager when the "in use by another program" problem occurs and see how many copies of DesignCAD Windows thinks are running. Shutting down the older copy should allow the newer copy to edit the file.

Task Manager would have the lost dcad listed. But since doing anything other than calling up dcad's menu to resurrect it means that instance of dcad is lost forever, then using Task Manager would cause any opened drawing to be 'eternally-in-use' (I think Windows, or maybe dcad, tags the actual file, as opposed to it just being registered somewhere). Maybe Windows have been improved over the years but once I solved the issue I never gave Windows a chance to prove this.




Lar