Author Topic: Catastrophic failure!  (Read 360 times)

Dr PR

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Catastrophic failure!
« on: July 17, 2018, 09:52:10 PM »
DesignCAD V27.0x64 27-Feb-18
Win 7 Pro 64

I was working on a pretty complex drawing, and had assigned a custom working plane (View/Working Plane/Set Working Plane). I have done this many times in this drawing.

I created a solid and then used "Edit/Trim-Extend/Fillet edge" to fillet an edge of the solid. I had done this several times.

Suddenly some of the hidden layers came into view.

After this many objects on visible and hidden/locked layers were missing from the drawing. A month or more of work!

Unfortunately, I didn't discover the missing objects until some time later. Now I am searching through backups to find the missing pieces.

****

I have seen several other flaky things in this version.

Sometimes it just refuses to allow me to select anything. I have to shut down the program and start over.

Sometimes when I zoom out the view orientation changes. On numerous occasions when I was working in the main window with perspective view, after zooming the view changed to the "front" view.

If I try to save an image file larger than the screen size in pixels some lines are left out.

I think I'll go back to using V26!

Phil

DesignCAD user since 1987

Dr PR

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 03:11:45 PM »
I reverted to V25 because of other bugs in V26, but the catastrophic crashes continue.

There is a single complex solid in the attached file. See the "trim test before.jpg" image. This solid was created by making two boxes (Solids/Box) and then using "Solids/Solid Add" to combine them in to a new solid. In this case I was using the default working plane.

I was using the "Edit-Trim-Extend/Cut Edge" function, with a radius of 0.125. As you can see it did cut four of the edges. But it would not cut the four long edges shown in the picture. I got a message saying that I needed to select either a grid or a plane.

I decided to explode the solid and then try the "Cut edge" command on the individual planes and grids. When I did I got the same "command failed" message (see the "command failed message.jpg").

But afterward most of the parts of the object were gone! See "cut edge test after.jpg."

This is a simple drawing, but in much larger drawings with tens of thousands of objects it is not only the parts of the original solid that disappear, but objects on other layers - even hidden and locked layers -  also disappear. Sometimes parts of other solids or groups disappear, without exploding the solids or groups.

Using "Show All" in the Layers dialog doesn't reveal the missing objects, so they aren't just being shuffled off to other hidden layers.

It isn't only the most recent objects that are deleted. Sometimes objects that had been created much earlier disappear while recently created objects remain.

It doesn't happen only in older files that are being edited again. The object in the attached "cut edge test.dcd" is from a file I just started a few days ago.

****

Can anyone else repeat this problem?

Phil
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:16:35 PM by Dr PR »
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Rob S

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 04:10:31 PM »
Following observations - only tried V2018 so far:

1)  Can't cut edge or fillet any edge so far which goes to an inside corner, which all of the edges you marked.

2)  Made my own cube with a corner removed, and found same

3)  Exploded, and tried the command, and parts of the solid disappeared.  Undo brought them back.

4)  Tried same on my own cube with same results
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Rob S

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 06:27:41 PM »
V26 produced similar results, with one exception

In one case I was able to fillet an edge which went to an inside corner, and in another case the resulting fillet went right through to the back of the solid, producing an implausible result.

V21 behaved similarly as well

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Dr PR

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 07:50:21 PM »
Rob,

Thanks. So it isn't just my machine. And it is repeatable. BUG!

Phil
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Lar

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 08:16:26 PM »

I got the same results (v2018 only). Like Rob said it only trims free edges, ie, ones that would not force another edge to be trimmed.


Another interesting thing is I am able to select the missing entities. In the image you can see where the corners of the missing bottom are highlighted with point selection mode's blue squares. The missing entity was selected when I snapped to a non-missing corner (where the big blue handle is) but the missing entity must be ahead of it on the entity list so it got selected instead of the non-missing one.


The image also shows the message from a macro I ran, which gives me info on the selected entity. The macro tells you the entity type in numbers and also in words, in the brackets. This is highlighted in yellow in the image. As you can see the brackets are empty. The text on the side of the dcad window is a notepad file with the basiccad code to generate the text in the brackets. As you can see there is no entity type 159, meaning it's for the developers' use and not for public consumption.



Lar
(later...) Like Rob says you can undo the disappearing of the entities but it's not actually undoing the "disappearing", rather it's skipping over of the disappearing and undoing the solid explode. However if I redo I can redo the actual disappearing.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 08:40:16 PM by Lar »

adriank

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 09:59:09 PM »
There is some really bizarre behavior going on with this.
I tried exploding the solid, then copying the whole assembly next to the original.
I then tried to fillet an edge (which had on the original deleted all the surfaces except the two I filleted) on the copy.
The whole of the copy deleted and the whole original remained intact - however... when I undid the operation, on the first undo the whole of the original disappeared and the two surfaces I'd tried to fillet returned (un-filleted) and on the second undo the whole original returned as a solid.

I note that after the faces disappear the drawing info is un-affected - it still reports 14 entities & 114 points.

I've always known filleting edges is flakey at best, I'm always having to make a 'cutting solid' and subtract that from my models to get the results I need. Never seen it this bad though!

Adrian

Dr PR

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 09:07:29 AM »
Lar,

It looks like you started with a blank drawing and repeated my steps to create the solid. I this right?

That would eliminate the cause as being some peculiarity in my original drawing that carried over to the test file that I sent when I copied from the original into the test file.

Phil
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Lar

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 10:06:28 AM »
It looks like you started with a blank drawing and repeated my steps to create the solid. I this right?

Correct, Phil.


I don't solid add too much, because it usually kept the lines where individual solids meet or overlap. I notice in your image these lines were missing so I created the 2 boxes, butted them together and crossed my fingers that the lines along the butting would not materialize. They didn't, so I was happy about that at least (what is the term for harboring a phobia that isn't a reality anymore, like never walking through a corner because a dog bit you there 20 years ago, but 10 years ago that dog died?) .



But like you say, the solid composition was created entirely on my computer so no bad mojo from your system.


But, something I forgot to mention in my previous post... exploding the solid would not result in a cut edge anyway, since it's not a solid anymore, so no Boolean operations happening. Still no excuse for the surfaces to disappear.

Lar
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 10:12:04 AM by Lar »

Dr PR

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 05:39:18 PM »
Lar,

Thanks!

They fixed most of the problems leaving extra edges and internal surfaces years ago. However, DesignCAD still leaves a lot of unnecessary points where edges met before the Solid Add. These can be a problem, so I often explode solids and eliminate the unnecessary points.

Another trick for cleaning up internal surfaces and combining multi-plane surfaces into a single plane is to create a new solid some distance from a working solid - with no edges, surfaces or volumes overlapping - and subtract the new solid from the old solid. This cleans up most problems with a solid.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Lar

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Re: Catastrophic failure!
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2018, 02:52:54 PM »

Yeah Phil, like you say they fixed most of the internal surfaces booling issues years ago but for me Solid Add got left out of most of that.


Lar