Author Topic: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe  (Read 849 times)

jwillard

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Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« on: June 20, 2018, 03:44:50 PM »
I'm entering some new territory here and need to get pointed correctly.

I did a wonderful drawing of a cylindrical piece we need to make a few of. We have a Haas SF-30 CNC lathe and I thought i'd run it through CamBam and viola... a part. Well....... I'm having some issues. The biggie is, DesignCad 3D Max 2018, when in 2D mode, which is what I drew this in is X-Y only. The Haas is X-Z.

Do I need to redraw this in 3D mode using the X-Z plane? MUST I learn 3D and do it that way? Can I save what I've got or do we chalk this up to lesson learned?
Thanks
Jeff

Bob P

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 04:55:43 PM »
In the General tab of the Options, at the bottom, you can change your working plane to X-Z.
If the drawing is already in the X-Y plane, switch to 3D and rotate the drawing 90 degrees so that it falls in the X-Z plane. Then you can switch back to 2D for any edits in the X-Z plane.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 05:04:43 PM by Bob P »

Dr PR

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 07:52:38 PM »
Jeff,

If you must switch to 3D mode the change you want to make is pretty simple.

1. In the Layers dialog, enable (UNLOCK) all layers of the drawing that you want to use for the CNC work.

If you have groups made up of objects on multiple layers, be certain that all occupied layers are enabled/unlocked.

2. "Edit/Select All" (CTRL A) to select all of the objects.

3. Set a handle (Edit/Selection Edit/Set Handles) (CTRL H) (NOT a drawing handle) at a point you want to rotate the drawing around.

4. Rotate (Edit/Selection edit/Rotate) (R) the selected objects -90 degrees around the X axis.

This will convert all +Y values to +Z values.

5. Save the file.

****

You should also be sure that you have no -X or -Y values in your drawing - many CNC programs (and 3D printers) don't know what to do with negative numbers. Set an origin point (Point/Origin) at the lowest X and Y values in the drawing.

Phil

Note: I have corrected the rotation axis - it should be rotated around the Z axis! Duh! Thanks to Bob P for pointing out my error.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 11:01:21 AM by Dr PR »
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jwillard

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 10:14:51 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I'm making progress but did run into an anomaly.

Let say I want to move a line. I select it, "M" , set a point on the line and then do a point relative. The dialog window pops up but, I can't enter a value into the Z axis box but, an entry into the Y axis effects Z.

Have i stumbled onto a bug?

Rob S

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 10:29:11 AM »
Not really.  Maybe sort of.

2D drawings theoretically only have two dimensions, and by default designcad uses xy.

The dialog simply does not contemplate drawing z dimensions in 2D mode. 

If you draw in 3D mode, you can draw 2D drawing on any axis you like.

Due to the combined 2D 3D in one single program some anomalies can arise, by switching back and forth you can end up with a 2D drawing with some points not on the zero depth plane, which can screw up some 2D commands.


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JJG

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 09:24:24 PM »
yes, and for that, there are some macros to flatten on the desired axis... give a look in macro section.

jwillard

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2018, 08:20:00 AM »
I haven't had a chance to play with this for a few days but, with relation to the Point Relative issue, I found that when I did point Relative and entered the Z value into the Y field, while the drawing looked correct in 2D mode and I happily carried on, in reality it in fact put the point in the Y coordinate. So when looking at it in the X-Z plane it looked fine, when I switched to 3D mode things were a mess. I discovered this when I went to do a trim between two lines and got an error saying there wasn't an intersection between them. I should have gotten a hint when some fillet commands failed too.
This is making my brain hurt. Maybe I should stop chewing gum while I try to figure this out. :)

Oh... FYI. In the mean time...... my machine operator programmed the Haas by hand and the parts are done. So now this is just pure principle. I won't let it defeat me.

Dr PR

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 09:10:10 AM »
jw,

When you are having the Point Relative problem in 2D what plane are you working in? We have been talking about switching between the XY and XZ planes, and it isn't clear when you are seeing this problem.

Phil
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jwillard

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 10:46:25 AM »
Actually, the "Plane" question was another one I had. In the above suggestions, there wasn't any mention of changing the "Working Plane", If I click "Choose working Plane" it asks for 3 points. An Origin, a 2nd point for X and a 3rd for Y. No choice for Z.

Again... my brain hurts.

Thanks to everyone though for the responses.
Jeff

Dr PR

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018, 11:10:46 AM »
Jeff,

I was in error in my post above when I said to rotate everything around the Z axis - you should rotate around the X axis! Sorry, I was having a "teen-age moment."

Thanks to Bob P for catching that error.

****

I am not certain what changing the Working Plane does in 2D, but my guess is that the X axis is temporarily realigned between the two points you set and the new Y axis is perpendicular to the new X axis. In 3D mode you set both X and Y directions to establish new 3D X, Y and Z axes.

Setting a custom working plane is an extremely useful option when you are trying to work relative to an angled line (2D) or plane (3D). Once the custom working plane is set all drawing functions work relative to the custom line/plane.

Imagine having a 3D surface angled randomly with respect to all three axes and trying to figure out how to draw a new object perpendicular to the plane! You can do it with a lot of geometrical constructions to get the perpendiculars, but if you set a new working plane orthogonal to the angles surface you can just draw naturally.

Phil
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jwillard

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2018, 02:04:16 PM »
In the interest of clarity, I've attached the original 2d drawing I'm working with. I've started from scratch with both of the suggested solution and can't seem to get where I need to be.
Essentially the 2D "X" axis needs to become Z and the original Y axis needs to become X

In working with Phil's suggestion to rotate around the X axis, I can't change the setting. It's showing rotation Axis as Z, and it's grayed out and I can't change it. (I just discovered I should have been in 3D mode. Then I could change the Rotation Axis)


bdeck

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2018, 09:40:21 PM »
Hello jw,

I've written some gcode for an xyz router, and made dwg files for conversion to xy code for a laser cutter, but I've never made a drawing for conversion to gcode for a lathe.

I'm just guessing the finished drawing would look something like that in the attached file O8.

Since this part requires rechucking, it is not clear to me whether the code will be generated from a single drawing file, or 2 files.

Here are the steps I used to get to file 08:

04 = 90 degree rotation of stripped down drawing in 2D mode
05 = same part in 3D mode (not attached)
06 = same part, rotated 90 degrees in the side view ( I do this with 4 clicks in the M macro, http://forum.designcadcommunity.com/index.php?topic=322.0 )
07 = same part back in 2D mode
08 = same part in 2D mode after changing to XZ working plane.

PS: the "coordinate system" indicator in the lower left corner of each view is turned on with Options/Options/Grid/DisplayCS.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 11:48:50 AM by bdeck »

Lar

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 07:48:47 AM »

I downloaded your file just to see what was going on, then oriented it as per your request, so I decided to upload it. It's essentially the same as bdeck's except it's the whole drawing.


Essentially the 2D "X" axis needs to become Z and the original Y axis needs to become X
To achieve this change in orientation I first (in 3d mode) rotated -90 deg on the X axis, then -90 deg on the Y axis. I then switched your 2d working plane to XZ (opened as XY, to change this press Q for Options dialog, "General" tab, last section before bottom).


Notes:
1] I added an XY/Z arrow to explain new orientation (on layer 2, since it was off)
2] I changed your notes to 3d Text because them being "always flat" was tricking me when in 3d mode...
3] Some of your dimensions were not straight so I straightened them. This is usually caused by snapping the 1st two dimension points to non-flush existing points while  using "free form" dimensions, or copying existing dimensions to non-flush points. Thing is, these dimensions were snapped at your very tiny chamfer corners. For chamfer corners I would zoom in to make sure I'm snapping correctly (that's if I remembered they were chamfered when I go to dimension, since I won't notice them cuz they so tiny).




Lar

DrollTroll

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2018, 10:33:17 AM »
jwillard, bear in mind that, for DesignCAD in 3D Mode, X is left/right, Y is up/down, and Z is forward/backward. This is different from some other programs, where Y and Z may be forward/backward and up/down, respectively. Add to that, in some software positive Z is toward you, while in DesignCAD (in default left-hand coordinates), positive Z is away from you (towards the horizon). Unfortunately, there's no way to change the base XYZ orientations, other than choosing left- or right-hand coordinates to toggle the direction of positive Z as forward or backward.

When you set up a drawing in DesignCAD's 2D Mode for XZ coordinates, the coordinate bar updates to showing X and Z instead of X and Y, but the Point dialogs will show X and Y inputs instead of X and Z. This is cosmetic only, as the 'Y' values you enter actually are used as Z values in this case.

So, with this setup (2D Mode, using XZ plane), drawing a line using 'Pointxy' values of 0,0; 10,0; 10,10; and 0,0 results in a triangle with the hypotenuse going from the origin to 10, 0, 10 (using X,Y, Z values). Switch to 3D mode and it should appear as a flat triangle in the Top view, and simply as a line in the Front and Side views. Gravity-snap to the points in the Main view to verify their locations.
If it's important that you draw in a flat plane only (say at fixed Y) in 3D mode, you can always lock that particular axis to a specified value. For example, if you want to always be sure any points you set lie at Y=0, lock the Y coordinate field in the coordinate bar, then enter 0 as the Y value. Now, even if you gravity snap to some location that has a different Y value (for example, coordinate 10, -2, 10), the point will be set with the snapped-to X and Z values, but the Y value will reset to the locked value of 0.
25 years with DesignCAD

bdeck

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Re: Going from X-Y drawings to X-Z for a Lathe
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2018, 01:20:53 PM »
On review, I'm guessing the drawing would look more like this.  Since the part is longitudinally symmetrical, and the rechuck may be manual, the drawing could be even simpler than that shown.

Couldn't find any info on your lathe, so dunno if it has dual spindles or just one.

Let us know how you ultimately get it done.

Regards,

bd
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 01:24:41 PM by bdeck »