Author Topic: Patent a machine or not?  (Read 388 times)

metrognome

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Patent a machine or not?
« on: April 10, 2017, 04:10:23 PM »
Hello.
It's been a while.
Out of the loop for a few years due to family issues.
Back at my computer now.

What I have is an idea for a human powered device that captures muscle energy in a linear, rather than rotary, fashion.
I spent a couple of years attempting to create a visualization using DCAD3D. Currently at V25.2
It is a crude representation compared to others who have presented their drawings here.

The subject header pertains to my feeling that I'll probably never get to the patent stage.
Even if I did get that far, what prevents a big manufacturer from expanding on the idea and taking that to market?
I'm only a retired-living-on-social-security individual with VERY limited income who would be hard pressed to mount a legal battle.
I have done patent searches galore and have found nothing like my idea.
I would like for this machine to initially enter the bicycle market as a personal transportation device.
Without the wheels it could be used to drive a generator, a pump or as an exercise machine.

If I would post my rendition here as a .dcd and make it public, what consequences would follow?

There is a philosophy entitled UBUNTU that I lean into. It tells me to get this out there for the betterment of all.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ubuntu_(philosophy)

I wouldn't mind someone skilled at CAD to run with it and improve on the 3D drawings I've made.
I certainly would not wish to give away ALL monetary value if it successfully came to market.
Social Security just barely covers it.

Thoughts?





Win10, core i-3, 6G ram, Dcad v25.2

Dr PR

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2017, 09:33:09 PM »
If you make the idea public before patenting it, you may not be able to patent it because it is public knowledge.

If you are serious about this you should contact a patent attorney.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Rob S

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 07:24:02 AM »
I was reading an article just the other day about a guy who supposedly invented the selfie stick, and his patented invention was blatantly copies and sold by others.

It turns out, as one might expect, that the patent merely gives you the right to sue the fraudsters, no one will pursue them on your behalf. 

What this means is that your patent is really only as good as your lawyer is at defending it.   If your invention were to be stolen and made a lot of money, you MIGHT find a lawyer who would sue on contingency for you.


All that being as it may, I would still definitely try and obtain a patent before making your drawing available to the public.  There might be an argument that this forum is not "public" as it requires signup, but once its out there, the barn door is hardly worth closing.

I think you also need to very carefully define what the unique concept is, and take patents for every single unique concept involved in the process.

Once you do that, or if you decide it's too much trouble and all, then I'm sure we'd all be interested to find out how it works
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metrognome

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 04:25:41 PM »
How do I post/attach a .dcd?
This box that I'm in right now has an 'Attach: Choose file' menu that doesn't seem to post or preview when I choose from my library.
I see others attaching .dcd's all the time for peer review.
When I attempt posting the whirly thing shows that it's trying, but it times out and I receive an "Internal Error" message.
What am I missing?
I think I would like to disclose.
Win10, core i-3, 6G ram, Dcad v25.2

Rob S

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 09:00:13 AM »
Note there is a file size limit - this might be what you are coming up against

Quote
maximum individual size 4096KB

If your file exceeds this size, you can Zip it, because DCAD files will reduce substantially when zipped.
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metrognome

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 04:58:40 PM »
Did that.
Zipped the .dcd down to 3764kb.
Still nada.
When I attempted posting just now, windows informed me it was uploading the zipped .dcd from my desktop.
When it reached 100% everything just closed down to a new message box with nothing in it.
Hmm
Win10, core i-3, 6G ram, Dcad v25.2

Dempsey

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 08:27:01 PM »
Strange, 1 to 4 files can be attached with a maximum size of 4,096 kb total.

I just attached a 3,000 kb zip file without any problems.

I use Win 7 Pro and Firefox. You are using Win 10 and which browser?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 08:30:57 PM by Dempsey »
Dempsey

metrognome

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 07:14:39 AM »
Been using Chrome.
Here's a Firefox attempt.

Alrighty then.
I've been a frequent visitor on this board for many years and have the feeling that I'm among honorable people.
So here we go.

A very simplified version of the patent abstract that I undertook back in my youth @ 65. I'm 76 now. 8)

I envision a three wheeled 'tadpole' cofiguration (two steerable front wheels and a powered single rear drive wheel) for light weight and straight line stability whose design is primarily to be powered while in a standing/walking posture such as cross country skiing.

Placing feet in for/aft motion wheeled stirrup carriages that travel for and aft on two main frame members arrayed horizontally inches above the ground surface and capable of carrying a riders weight. A walking/gliding type of stride transmits the rider's muscle power via an endless belt afixed to said carriages over cog wheels mounted upon two bearing supported counter rotating shafts in a 'force collector' device.
Said cog wheels having roller clutches arrayed so that they freewheel in one direction and engage in the opposite direction.
Said counter rotating shafts are couple together via gears keyed to each shaft so that energy input at the cog wheels in either or both directions is sent to the driven axle via a keyed drive sprocket mounted on the appropriate rotating shaft.

Forward motion accomplished. A geared hub would allow final drive ratios.

Steering is accomplished by a tiller shaft that is padded and set at a height to coincide with what is known as the 'One Point' which is below the navel and is the human's center of gravity.
Said 'One Point' is known by other names in various sports programs.
Thus allowing rider to steer hands free by twisting at that point while striding.
Said tiller shaft also would be equipped with handle bars and controls for more conventional control as needed.

A streamlined windscreen is an option.
As is a seat with a backrest. One could sit and only 'push' the foot carriages for propulsion, steering using the handlebars.
A tow-able trailer is part of my rendition. (not shown)
It can be seen that without the wheels and steering, the basic force capturing concept could be used for any device requiring a power force such as a generator, or a water pump.

I also want to give a shout out to one of you here for 'the man' depicted in the drawing, who also envisioned a human powered device. 
(I forget who, sorry, it was a long time ago. I did chop him up a little and glued him back together to fit)

So anyway, you can see I'm not of the caliber in concocting in DC3 as you all.
Feel free to add/change/finesse the appearance.

Remember me if there are royalties..... ;)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 07:16:20 AM by metrognome »
Win10, core i-3, 6G ram, Dcad v25.2

Bob P

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 03:16:50 PM »
Don't forget about brakes. Especially since with them about 70%+ of the weight is going to be transferred to the front.

A couple of years ago, I fiddled a little with a recliner 3-wheeler. What was unique is that I put most of the weight on the two front wheels - which were driven through a differential and axles. The pedals were actually in front of the front axle line. The single rear wheel simply trailed behind.

metrognome

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 06:50:23 PM »
Thanks for your response Bob. Were you the donor of the rider man?
I envision a wide, flat profile rear tire supplying braking force as well as helping to keep to keep things in a straight line.
There is a disc brake on the rear wheel. Rider placing weight on the rear wheel should give plenty of traction.
It's not intended to be a fast cycle. More like 2-3 times walking speed.
For more experienced riders front brakes could be an option.
Wouldn't want a rider doing a face plant by applying too much front brakes.
Were you able to open the zip file?
Win10, core i-3, 6G ram, Dcad v25.2

Bob P

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 02:47:04 AM »
Metro,

The "human" is probably from me. I have something similar which I found on the Interweb a few years ago.

Yes, I was able to open the zip. That file ended up 16.1Mb.

bdeck

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 09:01:10 AM »
Hi Metrognome,

Attached are some examples I found from USPTO Class/Subclass 280/221.

CLASS 280, LAND VEHICLES
   29   WHEELED:
   200   . Occupant propelled type:
   210   .. With propulsion means:
   220   ... Movable occupant support:
   221   .... Interconnected with propulsion means:

Most are elliptical, I found one linear from 1999. There may be more. Nordic's patent was in the 70's.

Of the 146 patents in that class, here's the only commercialized example I found. There may be more.
http://shop.elliptigo.com/ElliptiGO-8C_3

Best Regards,
bd

metrognome

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Re: Patent a machine or not?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 02:27:31 PM »
bdeck, thanks for the time you spent looking.
Many years ago I did that also. Spent untold hours.
I even went so far as to go to a local college here in Portland (Lewis and Clark) that had USPTO archives and a personal guide to help search.
I also spent some amount of time searching international patents.

The concept of my idea is that the muscle force used isn't limited to 'down/back' as the 'transmission' also collects the 'up/forward'.
One could propel using either/or.
Nordic's design uses only 'pushing' to the rear using rear muscle groups (buttocks and hamstrings).
This design also uses front muscle groups (including the abs).
Individually, or in harmony for twice the motive force.

The steering factor, while in motion, also contributes to the unique design. !

What inhibits me from going further is doubt, I suppose.
"What if I do get a pat.pending and can find no interest in a manufacturer to build a prototype and going into production?"
Maybe it's just a pipe dream. Cannabis is legal here ya know.  ;)

Here in Portland we have miles upon miles of bike paths.
Steady steams of bikers heading into town in the morning and back home evenings.

Giving this away, with some credit as originator, is the 'UBUNTU' way.   :)
 
The .dcd is broken into layers which show the drive system alone.






« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 02:35:42 PM by metrognome »
Win10, core i-3, 6G ram, Dcad v25.2