Author Topic: Gravity snap failure  (Read 6406 times)

Dr PR

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Gravity snap failure
« on: November 11, 2015, 09:16:20 AM »
Win 7 Pro 64
DesignCAD versions 23-25 32 bit and 64 bit

For some time now I have been having trouble selecting objects with gravity snap if I am zoomed in on a detail of the drawing.

When zoomed out to view the entire drawing, or a large part of it, right mouse button gravity snap always selects something. But when I zoom in it often fails to select an object when the cursor snaps to a point. I can repeatedly right click gravity snap again and again and nothing is selected.

However, if I left click near an object to select something (anything) this always works. After that right click gravity snap starts working again while zoomed in. So I have to "prime" the selection procedure before right click gravity snap will select something.

Typically my "View Distance" is 10,000 and I use "2D Selection Mode" and the "3D Cursor" type. "Snap Preview" is on and "Interruptible Snap" is enabled. "Running Snap" is disabled.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

The Scud

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2015, 01:11:44 PM »
I had this problem yesterday Doc but I cannot recall how I got round/fixed it. I need to emulate and write down what I am doing.
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Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 06:39:01 PM »
V25.1x64 16-Oct-15
Win 7 Pro 64

I am also seeing this problem with the "Midpoint" function when zoomed in close. If I place the cursor directly over a Line or Plane edge and execute the command it snaps to the midpoint of a line/edge some distance from the cursor position. PITA!

This is having serious effects upon the ability to draw. I'm not sure gravity snap works with any function when zoomed in close.

Note: This is with a fairly small drawing: about 4.2 Mbytes, 13,562 entities, 115,929 points.

Phil
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DrollTroll

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 10:17:40 AM »
When you say "zoomed in close", what zoom percentage are you talking about?
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Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 09:36:39 PM »
DT,

I really don't know - I don't pay attention to the Zoom Factor shown in the status bar. I set up a simple test to see if zoom factor alone was the cause.

The test drawing  had three lines, 100 units long, along X, Y and Z axes, with common end points. The line along the X axis has 50 tick marks 5 units long.

I gravity snapped (right click) to one of the tick marks at the end point on the line. Then I used the "+" zoom button to zoom in in steps. I then gravity snapped to the end of the tick mark.

View Distance = 10,000
ZVF =  Zoom View Factor

ZVF              Result
175%              OK
350%              OK
700%              OK
1400%            OK
2800%            OK
5600%            OK
11200%          OK
22401%          OK
44802%          OK
89603%          OK
179207%        OK
358414%        OK
716827%        OK
1433654%      OK
2867309%      OK
5734617%      OK
11469234%    OK
22938468%    OK
45876936%    OK
91753873%    OK
183507746%  OK
367015491%  OK
734030982%  OK - but selected item not visible in main window - it shows in other three windows.

Well, so much for simple tests. This wasn't a large drawing with a lot of objects.

I opened a large drawing and zoomed in to ZVF =  176595990% and I could gravity snap select objects. Closer in I couldn't see the lines.

So it looks like the problem appears only after I have been editing a drawing for several hours, or after some particular sequence of edits.

Phil
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DrollTroll

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 06:32:42 AM »
It's possible that if you're zoomed in that far, the entire distance across the screen may be smaller than the tolerance values used in some functions (including display algorithms).

If I recall correctly, this was a much worse problem in the old single-precision versions of DesignCAD -- after you zoomed in a few thousand times, you could no longer be completely sure that what was displayed on screen was accurate. Use of the Units command had (still has) the potential to make things much worse, often exacerbating the amount of floating-point error obtained.

By comparison, TurboCAD's maximum zoom level appears to be in the neighborhood of around 40,000 %
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 08:14:33 AM by DrollTroll »
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Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 08:09:44 AM »
DT,

The disappearing view isn't a problem. I never actually zoom in as much as in these tests. I'll pay attention the next time this happens and record the zoom percent.

I really think there is an editing history that sets up the problem so I'll try to figure it out. When this does happen it usually continues to happen until I shut down the program. When I restart it seems to be a while before right click gravity snap fails.

It is strange that I can reset the problem temporarily by left clicking and selecting anything, then right clicking to gravity snap.

Also, I need to check to see if the period key gravity snap also fails.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2015, 10:41:13 AM »
Just had it happen again.

View Zoom Factor = 563%
Drawing size = 19.463 x 22.125 x 14.500
View Distance  = 10,000
File size = 710 Kbytes

I had just created a group on layer 3 and then moved it to layer 1 with the Info Box. Gravity snap was working fine.

Then I used  "Fit to Window" (CTRL W) to zoom out.

After that right click gravity snap wouldn't select anything. I forgot to test the comma key gravity snap.

I used the left mouse to select something, and after that left click gravity snap worked OK again.

Note: Layer 3 was the active layer, and it was empty after I moved the objects to layer 1. Layer 1 was unlocked, and there were other objects on layer 1 before I moved the group to layer 1.

Phil
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Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2015, 06:16:52 PM »
Happened again.

I was drawing lines and planes on layer 4. I used "Fit to Window" (CTRL W) and then tried to select an object with right click gravity snap. It didn't work. I left clicked to select an object and right click gravity snap started working again.

Only layer 4 was active/visible. Other objects were on layers 1-3.

View Zoom Factor = 2620%
View Distance  = 10,000
Drawing size = 1.357 x 4.756 x 2.000  - this is the visible part on layer 4
Full drawing size = 19.813 x 28.374 x 18.000

That's interesting. The "Help/Drawing Info" shows only a "Drawing Size" for visible layers, and not the total visible/hidden drawing size. That seems like a bug.

Phil
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Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2015, 12:37:45 PM »
Happened again.

I had just done a couple of "Solid ADD" operations with all objects on the same layer.

As often happens the colors of some of the facets tuned black - probably the Aluminum material if history has any relevance.

I tried to gravity snap (right click) and it failed to select an object. I tried the "period" key with same results.

Note: The cursor does snap to the object. It just doesn't select the object.

Then I tried right clicking to select the new solid and nothing happened. Selection failed.

Note: Right click gravity snap will select other objects, as will left clicking - they just won't select the new solid.

"Ctrl A" did work to select everything. But gravity snap still wouldn't select the new solid, nor would right clicking.

AHA! I opened the "Layers" dialog and clicked "Unlock All." After closing the dialog gravity snap did work to select the new solid. The Info Box showed it to be a multiple layer solid, and layer zero was occupied. I never use layer zero because the solid Boolean operations often scatter parts of solids to this layer.

So in this case it was the "Solid Add" function that moved some facets of the solid to layer zero, which was locked. So I couldn't left or right click to select the solid. I guess that is understandable, but why did "Select All" work?

Zoom = 5173%
View Distance = 10,000

****

I don't think this is the cause of the other gravity snap failure problems, but I'll keep watching.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 09:26:25 PM »
Did it again.

Zoom = 151%
View Distance  = 10,000

I had just selected an object with right click gravity snap, then pressed Escape to cancel the selection. Tried to right click gravity snap another object and it failed. Couldn't select anything with right click gravity snap or even left click.

Left clicked over and over and eventually something was selected. Then right click gravity snap started working again.

Used "Select All" and all objects were on the same layer according to the Info Box.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 11:14:15 PM »
Did it again.

This time I created a simple solid in one drawing, Then I copied it to the clipboard and closed that drawing. I pasted the solid into another large drawing (96 Mbytes, 137,305 entities, 1,156,805 points) that was already open, and then used "A+" to move it to the current layer.

After that neither left click object selection or right click gravity snap would work.

I left clicked repeatedly on several objects and finally something was selected. After that right click gravity snap worked again.

****

I wonder if the program goes off into never-never land occasionally and ignores mouse clicks for a while? In earlier versions it would sometimes chase it's tail for up to a minute before coming back to work. I still see this with some operations in large files - such as exploding very large groups or Undo.

That might explain this problem. I right click and nothing is selected. Then I left click and something is eventually selected. After that right click works again - not because left click selected something, but because the program came back to life in the time between when I right clicked and left clicked. This would also explain why I have to left click more than once some times before something is selected.

Phil
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:16:04 PM by Dr PR »
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Dr PR

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2015, 02:34:30 PM »

This is getting to be really annoying!!

I created a new solid. Then I could not select it with right click gravity snap - instead the program draws a blue rectangle on the screen as if I was trying to left click drag select objects.

Left click fails repeatedly - up to a dozen times. Finally, If I left click many times something in the drawing gets selected. After that right click gravity snap works again.

However, if I then try to use the "Edit/Trim-Extend/Cut Edge" function or the "Filet Edge" function on an edge of the new solid both commands fail because I cannot left click or right click to select anything! These functions fail saying I must select a plane or a grid.

So even after I get left click and right click gravity snap working again, just starting the "Cut Edge" function causes them to fail so I cannot select anything for the function to work with!

Not all commands cause selection to fail - the "Intersect 2" function works with either left click or right click gravity snap selection of the lines.

****

I have attached a test for these problems -  the "trim failure test.dcd" file contains only one solid and a few lines - so it isn't a large file related problem.

Try to use the "Edit/Trim-Extend/Cut Edge" function on the short edge marked by the blue line. On my Win 7 Pro 64 machine running V25.1x64 the function fails saying I must select something. After that neither left click or right click gravity snap work to select objects until I left click several times near something. After I succeed in selecting something right click gravity snap works again.

Phil
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 02:56:05 PM by Dr PR »
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Pearco

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2015, 03:51:11 PM »
Dr Pr;

I did not have trouble selecting edges, but only the right end or left end could be cut. Top and bottom edges said it was not a solid. You must realize that cut edges is not a command that I ever use, therefore I am not real sure I was doing it correctly. Why does it ask for a radius when it cuts on a bevel?
Jim
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adriank

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Re: Gravity snap failure
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2015, 04:47:11 PM »
I've never used 'cut edge' before either - I do use 'fillet edge' all the time though.
What is the difference between the 2 commands? they seem to do exactly the same thing except in fillet edge you can specify more settings (asymmetric fillet, number of facets etc).
On your example I got a 'command failed' notification for both cut edge and fillet edge without telling me why it failed. That does not surprise me because fillet edge has always been temperamental  for me, I did not, however have any issues about selecting elements with either right or left clicks afterwards.