Author Topic: designing/moving windows in a house  (Read 15965 times)

DrollTroll

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 02:39:44 PM »
Let's not forget Ctrl-K for Midpoint Snap!
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samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2014, 04:09:48 PM »
but bob, K and H are no use if you are trying to draw a gingerbread house! (first post refers) - Best to freehand it.  :)

PS When you are drawing a "common vector" (using V), H toggles ortho on and off.   

and (edit) assuming you are in 2D for a sketch , and Assuming H is off for a minute, eg for some inclined lines , - and if you have the scrollbar active, then (in 2D) you should see a set of small arrows in the lower left side.    These give you 30 degrees, 45, 60, or indeed 0 and 90.  If you use "0" (horizontal) for instance, then no matter how much Y component is in your cursor movement, the next part of that line will be drawn horizontal.   Likewise vertical.
   
Doh, All that is pretty useless if you are in 3D, although you can switch between 2D and 3D to do sketches, just that the plane of those sketches,  (i.e. the Z coordinate of those lines) tends to be Z=0.   (PS You can reset the origin before going into 2D, and your lines are in the new Z=0 plane.)

By comparison, using H, the orthogonal line that results usually ends us mimicking the larger component of your cursor movement, so that a 44 degree movement (mathematical, clockwise  from east) will end up horizontal, whereas a 46 degree movement will end up vertical  (or the equivalent in 3D)

All pretty basic, but you sound like you are on a pretty steep learning curve there  (considerably more than 50 degrees) :)  cheers sam

PS You might also like to check out "Draw\Ootho line 1" and "Draw\Ortholine 2"  which do the same thing pretty much.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 04:55:05 PM by samdavo »

samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2014, 05:07:20 PM »
In terms of drawing your house, ...  and then place flat vertical boxes on top for the walls.

Then, you can punch holes in those wall boxes for the windows, using solid subtract.
Here's a question for Rob S or others
Suppose you have
a) a vertical box representing a wall,  and
b) another for the door that you are going to solid subtract to punch the hole,
c)  how do you locate the door-box relative to the wall box?
d) do you bother to extend the door-box slightly lower that the plane of the floor ( I imagine not ?)
e) and do you extend it slightly proud of each side of the wall, i.e. if the wallbox is 100mm wide, is the doorbox 20+100+20 = say 140mm wide? (I imagine yes?)

two things, 
1. Easiest way to locate the handle of doorbox (i.e. the CAD handle :)  )
2.  and also avoiding z fighting, (2 cents)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 05:09:01 PM by samdavo »

magic

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2014, 05:25:40 PM »
Hi Sam,

PS You might also like to check out "Draw\Ootho line 1" and "Draw\Ortholine 2"  which do the same thing pretty much.

Thanks for pointing out Ortho Line-2 in the Draw > Line menu. I have never noticed it to be there, since I almost always use the tools in the Main Toolbox (or the Tool Shed) on the left. I shall use it in the future!
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Rob S

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2014, 07:35:23 PM »
To create openings, it seems to work best if the solid to be subtracted sticks out of the wall on both faces, and down below the bottom if it is a door

So, to locate a window, I would first create a box thicker than the wall, and same size as my window.

Then, I would select it and set a handle on it below and to the left by however far the window is from the corner of the wall and move it into position, then bring it forward so it sticks out of the wall a bit.  Then solid subtract.

This sounds much more complicated than it really is, once you get the idea there are many different ways of doing it. 

In fact it can be done in the first place by using point relative to set the first point of the subtracted solid using point relative from the corner of the wall up by sill height, over by how far from the corner, and forward an arbitrary distance, and the second point up and over by the window size and back enough so it sticks out the backside.

I hope I have not confused the issue, if so I will try to prepare a demo example.
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samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2014, 07:53:25 PM »
magic -
At risk of confusing bobl, I personally prefer Ortholine, and have reset hotkeys V and L  to be "random vector" and "ortho line" resp - rather than have H toggling ortho on and off.   But then you have to reset L ( which is normally layer), etc etc  - and it was just my prejudices that lead me down that particular road.

Easier (for someone starting greenfield) might be to reset H as ortholine (rather than L as I have).  (?)   But others who are used to H= toggling would no doubt tell me it's unnecessary complication. 

Rob -
Yep all makes sense.   If it were me (and I never draw houses, walls, windows or doors ) - but I would do what you do ( eg the box for the window is 20+100+20 , projecting out of the wall on each side;    but in the case of a door, I would either
a) stop the hole for the door 1mm above the floor, or
b) take the risk and take the box down to floor level - i.e. I imagine that z-fighting at the bottom plane wouldn;t matter that much (?)

cheers gents
sam
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 07:55:47 PM by samdavo »

samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2014, 11:50:42 PM »
I add this as ideas for consideration.
If a wall has both a door and a window, then
a) draw it with door shapes included,  MP = make plane
b) draw the window, again MP
c) extrude the wall by its thickness, eg 100mm)
d) extrude the window along a line that projects both sides of the wall  eg very roughly 50+100 + 80 say
e) (both should be solids, if you select planes instead, delete them)  - solid subtract the window from the wall

Couple of points,
I show a 3D shading of the green window rectangle in the yellow wall shape - you will see the confusion as to whether green or yellow is chosen.  That is called z-fighting , and is why you should make the window box proud of the wall on either side (2 cents)

You'll see I treat doors differently to windows, purely because they extend to the edge of the wall (which could have z fighting on bottom of wall)
 

samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2014, 11:51:20 PM »
continued ...

samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2014, 02:48:47 AM »
Since the thread title talks about "moving windows",  I illustrate what happens when you look at the front view, and stretch it (with "use 3D selection box" unticked)

firstly a small amount, both window and door  (including stretching the left hand side of the window downwards);

secondly a large amount (right off/through the edge of the wall.

This has all been discussed recently on other threads. 

prl

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2014, 03:30:47 AM »
Many techniques.  Here is a 2d/3d demo.

Quickwall technique demo

samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2014, 04:48:53 AM »
Wow prl, that is absolutely the quickest way (provided you are talking one wall I guess).

i.e. When you have a solid extruded wall in 3D, and look at it again in 2D, and use  Section Delete (hotkey D) to delete the various rectangles for windows and doors...

and when you convert back to 3D, there holes through the wall!! - brilliant. 

i.e. that process seems to drill a rectangular hole through everything , irrespective of z value !!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 04:52:09 AM by samdavo »

samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2014, 05:12:49 AM »
Hey prl, I tried that with three walls in series, different outlines, but all with the same windows and doors to be "drilled", - when I went back to 2D and "Section Deleted" the square holes, the first two walls look ok, but the third has ( believe it or not, and for whatever reason unknown to me) a moderate case of z-fighting (??)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 05:39:34 AM by samdavo »

samdavo

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2014, 05:13:56 AM »
Herewith the final dcd
weird or what (??)

ok (PS) I note that there is no problem if you select just the solids, and separate them from the plates (the planes are in several bits because of the central holes incidentally)  - REFER second jpeg.

If I had somehow extruded the original wall, and deleted the plane that was being extruded in the process (??) the "problem" wouldn't have arisen 

Nothing that can't be sorted in any case.
cheers 

ps For the first (green) wall, the plane and the solid are both green - so z-fighting , even if happening , is not evident.
For the second (red) wall, they are both red, ditto.
But for the third (yellow) wall, the plane is green and the solid is yellow - hence the z- fighting is evident .(2 cents)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 05:42:13 AM by samdavo »

prl

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2014, 05:57:56 AM »
i.e. that process seems to drill a rectangular hole through everything , irrespective of z value !!

Yes.  Best to always isolate your walls so there is nothing behind them because the section trim in 2d mode will punch a hole through the entire 3d model (and out the back of your monitor).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 06:20:41 AM by prl »

prl

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Re: designing/moving windows in a house
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2014, 06:02:25 AM »
Hey prl, I tried that with three walls in series, different outlines, but all with the same windows and doors to be "drilled", - when I went back to 2D and "Section Deleted" the square holes, the first two walls look ok, but the third has ( believe it or not, and for whatever reason unknown to me) a moderate case of z-fighting (??)

Sam, your wall models include both a plane and a solid. (To see this, select the solid at the back edge and delete it.  You will see the plane.)

Before you punch the holes using the 2d section trim, make sure you only have the single solid.  Not sure where you are picking up the extra plane.