Author Topic: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.  (Read 16681 times)

DaveTK

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DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« on: April 03, 2014, 02:26:32 AM »
Hello All,
Can you please help me. I am new to this forum but I can see from previous threads that there is a lot of experience from users that might help with my problem. I have been looking for a 2D/3D drafting CAD package and I am currently evaluating a trial copy of DesignCAD 3D Max23 which I would like to buy.

Everything was going fine until I went into Paper Space whereupon at short irregular intervals between 5 and 20 minutes of use, the programme crashes while I am editing the views. There is no specific editing move that causes the crash but it doesn't crash spontaneously, a mouse click or keystroke is always involved.
I don't mind the crash so much as the corruption that sometimes but not always occurs to the drawing. Corrupted drawings can have some views left invisible and apparently not retrievable but I can sometimes find objects with gravity snap though they remain invisible.
Sometimes a Paper Space view may be retrievable in "Top View" only. It may also be the case that the 3D-space Main View is invisible and apparently un-retrievable.

So far all I have drawn to evaluate the Paper Space functions is a 20cm cube, so nothing complex at all. In order for this software to be useable by me it is important that I can either stop the crashing / file corruption or be able to retrieve drawings from a corrupted file.

I am using a one year old Sony Vaio laptop i5-5230M processor 2.6GHz 6GB memory; AMD Radeon HD 7550M/7650M Graphics, 1GB memory, with Windows 8.1 64bit installed.

When a crash occurs I get a windows message: -   "DesignCAD 3D MAX 23 has stopped working. A problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available."  - So it sounds like a Windows 8.1 compatibility issue but I am no expert.
               
Having read though other threads I can tell you the following that I have tried:-

Added the DesignCAD.exe file to the Win8.1 exclusion list for Data Execution Prevention,     
( DEP).  Suggested by DrollTroll in an earlier thread Sept23 2013.
Check for the presence of "ipoint.exe". – It isn’t present.

Turned off the "use accelerated pixel format” – Suggested by Rob S

Make sure Redsdk is turned off (not checked). – Suggested by Rob S

Tried “View/Regenerate All” views and “Windows/../Restore DesignCAD Tile”

I have attached a corrupted file so that you can see first-hand what I am talking about.
Only TopView can be seen in all types of View Settings. Front, Side, Isometric etc can only be viewed in Wireframe.
3D-space Main View is hiding somewhere!

DCAD has such a lot going for it; I would dearly like to be able to use it. I only have 7 days of the trail period left to make a decision on buying a copy.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
David

samdavo

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 03:15:33 AM »
Corrupted drawings can have some views left invisible and apparently not retrievable
David
I haven't read all your post, but I see that your main view doesn't work (in modelspace) ... 
try this:-
for the view that doesn't work,
make that view active -
go to the red camera (on the right of the view toolbox),
click on it, move to the view in question, (it will be there as a black camera);
left-click and move it around a bit;
after that click "ok" top left.

 (2 cents ) - see if your "main view" comes back.

I'll let others explain the whys (wise) and the where4's.
cheers

PS In summary, I think you'll find that your file is not corrupted, just something to do with views (distance, viewpoint in particular) - and perfectly retrievable.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 04:08:54 AM by samdavo »

samdavo

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 03:38:23 AM »
Actually, I was using V22.1, but I'm confident you will be able to do that with V23 as well (which I have on another computer not now available).
Anyways, give it a go, and let us know;   cheers

mmm, your Paperspace views are a bit more difficult to get back to life - for me anyway - but to be honest I don't use paperspace much.  eg the enclosed jpeg has a blank "front view" ??
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 03:59:17 AM by samdavo »

DaveTK

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 03:54:27 AM »
Samdavo,
           Many thanks for the quick response.
I tried your suggestion and it successfully made the Main View visible again, – excellent so far. However, as I switch between 2D and 3D views, what was visible disappears out of view. Each attempt to correct it fails with each switch between views. I think this is because the position of the object has moved a long way from where I initially drew it. I feel confident that this is fixable; it is only my lack of user knowledge that is my problem with that aspect.

Unfortunately the Paper Space views are all still messed up. So still some way to go.

Once again thank you for the help. If you think of anything else I’ll be happy to try it.

David

Pearco

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 04:18:59 AM »
DaveTK:

Just a wild guess, go to the view menu and on it you will find two commands, Fit to all windows and regenerate all. Try them if you have not yet and see if that helps.
Jim
User since ProDesign 1.5

samdavo

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 04:44:21 AM »
Dave
Here is my opinion of paperspace (FWIW)
I don't much like it because I don't believe it can be reliably converted to AutoCAD ( which my clients occasionally ask for), and also I find dimensions "troublesome" - hidden in this paperspace view,  visible in this one etcetc - sheesh.

ok - suppose you still want to add some sort of isometric view to an otherwise simple 2D drawing ( with plan, front and side, in 3rd angle projection, maybe a few details thrown in...). 
I attach another option. 

1. That is to do a conventional 2D drwg (drwg #1) -

2. and a quick 3D object in another drwg (drwg #2 - usually pretty simple - no dimensions  no titleblock -  in the same way that I extruded the shape of the cello from the case that rj had drawn - on another thread)

3. when you are happy with the 3D version, as seen in isometric or whatever, possibly swept 270 degrees for instance (as per the enclosed example) - then you save it as a 2D drawing,  refer Save As options -  (ok third drawing, drwg #3, but don't lose heart lol).

(1+3) = 4. Then you copy and paste the drawing of the isometric, which has now been steam-rollered into a 2D sketch,  and paste it into drwg #1.      Voila !

No need for paperspace. 
easily converted to DWG to send to an AutoCAD client.
quick, simple, easy control of dimensions and notes.
and the sketch has no dimensions on it - so you can even use it for "similar" cylinders,
or for this drwg with a few changes to drwg #1 dimensions (the accurate one).
QED :)
Just a thought ok?

PS the enclosed jpeg shows a circular cylinder with 2d views and dimensions and notes etc - and also the (large) flattened isometric. 
THis is drwg #1, with drwg #3 pasted into it.  cheers
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 04:56:37 AM by samdavo »

samdavo

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 05:10:41 AM »
PS also you are only briefly in 3D each time you need to do a sketch.
the rest of the time you literally "fly" through a drawing using 2D rules.

Others will not like this approach, but as I say, and AFAIK, it has the best chance of being FULLY compatible with AutoCAD conversion,  and that's an important consideration for me.  Plus it's quick, and has no surprises.

Having said all that, lol - I love to play around drawing 3D cellos and stuff - just stretching the bounds of my knowledge;  and investigating the fascinating corners of DCAD.   But when it comes to bread and butter, I stick with Keep-it-simple.  Just my opinion ok?

Heck. if I had to do a drawing of a cello, I would stick a jpeg of a screendump of multiple views into the drawing somewhere. - in amongst the serious stuff, dimensions, cross-sections,  string tensions,  notes on how to assemble it, notes on how to play Chopin opus 4777789 etc etc - all easily done in either
a) 2D,  or
b) 3D "sketches" subsequently flattened by saving as 2D files whilst in say isometric or some other view.
cheers

DaveTK

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 05:18:40 AM »
DaveTK:

Just a wild guess, go to the view menu and on it you will find two commands, Fit to all windows and regenerate all. Try them if you have not yet and see if that helps.

Pearco,
I tried the two suggested commands but it hasn't worked. If I zoom out a long way, I can see that each time I move between 2D and 3D, the 2D-view walks diagonally across the screen several thousand cm at a time.  Interestingly I've been able to lock a corner of the drawing to xyz=0,0,0 but the ruler is incrementing rather than the object changing its co-ordinates.
Thanks for the thought.
David

DaveTK

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 05:38:39 AM »
Samdavo,
               I was wondering what you used instead of Paper Space but didn't want to ask you and change the theme of the original thread. You have given me some new ideas which go partly towards answering a question I had about different views. I haven't seen a feature that allows an easy way of generating something like a Section View on "A-A", for instance, which you show in one of your drawings. I'm sure there is a way of doing this as it is quite important for engineering drawings and you have done it. I'll seriously take on board what you've shown me, I think it will help. Many thanks.
Do you play the Cello by any chance?
David

prl

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 06:51:39 AM »
DCAD has such a lot going for it

I would agree but in all honesty, my opinion,  DC's paperspace isn't one of them.  There are a few lone rangers out there, maybe they'll chime in.  In the meanwhile, search and study some of the past posts for paperspace.  Hairy comes to mind.

DaveTK

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 08:36:06 AM »
prl,
   I'll take up your suggestion and read through some previous Paper Space threads.  It seems a shame if problems are known already that fixes haven't been put in place in subsequent DCAD version releases!
Thanks for the comment.
David

Dr PR

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 09:33:24 AM »
Dave,

From Sam's suggestion and your response I can suggest one reason why your 3D modelspace view may partially disappear.

Open the "View Toolbox" - open the "Options/Options/View" menu dialog and in the "Show/Hide" list check the box to the left of the "View Toolbox" entry.

At the left of the toolbox is a field that defaults to "Perspective" view. There are several other options in the drop down list. Near the right end of the toolbox is the "View Distance" field. This defaults to 1000, but you can type in different distances.

If you are working in "Perspective" view and using the default "View Distance" of 1000, AND your drawing is more than 1000 drawing units wide you can find yourself standing inside the drawing. In this case the view shows only what is visible in front of the "camera" and things that are behind it disappear. When this happens you should increase the view distance to about 5X the drawing width.

This may be why parts of your drawing disappear.

****

I can't help you with Paperspace because I find it unnecessary and have never used it. I started drawing in pencil and paper days, and since earlier versions of DesignCAD didn't have a Paperspace view I just created Title and Border layers to control printing and such for my 2D drawings. For 3D I normally don't want the extraneous drawing garbage showing.

When I do want to embed a 3D view in a 2D drawing I use the "File/Save As" options "Save 2D Projection" and "With Hidden Line Removal." This creates a 2D file with the current 3D hidden line view. If you open this 2D file and select the desired part of the drawing, you can copy/paste the 2D drawing into another 2D drawing.

I have attached an example drawing that was made this way. The 2D orthographic third-angleprojection drawing was created as a 2D drawing in DesignCAD, with separate Title and Border layers. The various perspective views were created from a 3D DesignCAD model using the "Save 2D Projection" option mentioned above, and these perspective views were pasted into the original 2D drawing.

You can also save shaded images from a 3D drawing as JPEG files with the "File/Image/Save Image File" function. These shaded images can then be pasted into a 2D drawing with the "File/Image/Load Image File" function.

Having said this, the Paperspace mode offers several advantages over the old technique I have described above. The most important is that when you make a change to the 3D model all of the Paperspace views should be updated immediately to reflect the changes. You can also do some view scaling tricks in Paperspece mode easier than you can with the older techniques.

A VERY significant disadvantage of Paperspace mode is that it increases file size. For small drawings (<50 Mbytes) this is unimportant, but if you work with very large files (>150 Mbytes) the extra baggage can be a big problem.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

DaveTK

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 01:41:22 PM »
Dave,

From Sam's suggestion and your response I can suggest one reason why your 3D modelspace view may partially disappear.

Open the "View Toolbox" - open the "Options/Options/View" menu dialog and in the "Show/Hide" list check the box to the left of the "View Toolbox" entry.

At the left of the toolbox is a field that defaults to "Perspective" view. There are several other options in the drop down list. Near the right end of the toolbox is the "View Distance" field. This defaults to 1000, but you can type in different distances.

If you are working in "Perspective" view and using the default "View Distance" of 1000, AND your drawing is more than 1000 drawing units wide you can find yourself standing inside the drawing. In this case the view shows only what is visible in front of the "camera" and things that are behind it disappear. When this happens you should increase the view distance to about 5X the drawing width.

This may be why parts of your drawing disappear.

****


Phil
         Thanks for the feedback and sorry for the late reply; other things took me away from the computer.
As per your suggestion I looked at the perspective and other view settings and they seemed okay to me based around the small drg object and the 1000 distance which had been a more than adequate setting during the construction of the original drawing.  Increasing the distance number in stages to 10 million made no difference.  Samdavo’s suggestion worked anyway at returning the Main View, so no worries there. The Paper Space views are still missing though.

 I still have other issues relating to the 2D drawing object walking off the screen as I repeatedly traverse between 2D and 3D space, as I mentioned to Pearco in my #8 reply in this thread.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that Paper Space is a feature that is nice to have in only a limited number of cases. I would though hope that I can resolve the crashing issue. My worry is that when I start to create more complex drawings DCAD exhibits a crash characteristic in 2D or 3D space.

I still don’t know if anyone else has had experience of Paper Space crashing often.

I am very grateful to you for your input relating to the use of the various copy/save/save as /Image Save features that will help me stay away from Paper Space whilst maintaining the use and flexibility of the other DCAD 2D/3D drawing features.

As a newcomer to the forum, may I say I am most pleased with the help that you and all the other participants have given me. Thank you all.

This will probably be my last post of the day given that it is getting late here in the UK.
I’ll continue the good fight tomorrow.

David

Dr PR

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2014, 02:53:56 PM »
David,

We have seen quite a few problems similar to yours in the past, but eventually just about all of them were solved with simple changes. Finding them, as you are learning, can be anything but simple.

Be sure you have their latest drivers for your video card.

Phil
DesignCAD user since 1987

Dempsey

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Re: DesignCAD 3D Max23. Paper-Space Crash and File Corruption.
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2014, 05:57:53 PM »
David,

I haven't look at your paperspace issue yet because I see another problem. The 3D main modeling window shows nothing and I cannot get it to show anything. However, when I change it to "parallel" view and then do Ctrl-Shft-W (Fit to all Windows) the four windows show the proper content.

Going back to Perspective or Isometric view and the 3D main window does not show anything. Likewise, parallel view works in paperspace, but Perspective or Isometric view does not work either. Note that for parallel view you need to change the view angle (little camera icon).
Dempsey