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Looking For Help? / Re: FASTER DesignCAD REDRAWS
« Last post by Rob S on May 23, 2018, 11:20:38 AM »
So, my initial findings are that having tried three different computers and about 5 different versions of Designcad back to V21, they all regen as posted in about 4-7 seconds.  So not significantly different from your machine.  Be interesting to see whatr DR pr comes up with using his supercomputer!!!

Windows 10 Laptops - One year old HP Envy i5 6 seconds, 7 year old HP pavillion i7 6-7 seconds  both around 3 seconds with vector fonts

Fastest is my 10 year old Gateway windows 7 destop i7 2.8 ghz at 4 seconds as posted, and around 2 seconds with vector fonts.  This was always a fast machine, and not sure why exactly.

One of the versions on the pavillion was regenning 3 times on every redraw, but it stopped doing that after a while, not sure why.

I found the change to vector text font for dimensions only (and not simplex) reduced my regen from 6 to just under 3 seconds, so for me at least twice as fast.  I also tried simplex, and that got it down to about 2 seconds.

I also found one of the vector fonts being Guymon Light Condensed that is quite nice and almost as narrow as Arial Narrow, also subsequently Gillian light is actually narrower than the arial narrow.

Thus. it seems there are many things you theoretically could do to speed things up, but due to your established practices, these all might be a bit difficult.  Still, you may find some of the suggestions useful to keep in the back of your mind for future.
Looking For Help? / Re: Do you have copy of16.2 Patch?
« Last post by Rob S on May 23, 2018, 11:05:41 AM »
The following website seems to have them all, I have not tried them
Looking For Help? / Do you have copy of16.2 Patch?
« Last post by bobarthur on May 23, 2018, 08:56:51 AM »
Does anyone have a copy of the DesignCAD 16.2 patch?
Looking For Help? / Re: FASTER DesignCAD REDRAWS
« Last post by jacklward on May 23, 2018, 08:40:47 AM »

Not a problem, I thought about switching back and forth but none of the vector fonts I looked at were condensed enough, plus we use other fonts for emphasis and clarity so it would be a lot of extra work to save 0.7 seconds per redraw (3D v20, 3.0 seconds vs 2.3 seconds).

I've been complaining for years to IMSI about the redraw speed, v15 was the first I tested for redraw speed, as I recall it was also slower than the previous version I was using then.  Frankly I thought v15 was slow but its competitors (that I tried) weren't much better.

That is not the case today, DesignCAD's competitors (all I have looked at) are exponentially faster than DesignCAD 2018.  DesignCAD using my attached drawing on my computer has gone from 1.7 seconds (3D v15) to 6.8 seconds (3D v23), a 400% increase, to 6.3 seconds (2018 64 bit), a 370% increase from v15.

FYI, I do not recall us ever having a problem with Esc not stopping redraws, on any version we have tried, but we are only doing 2D not enormous 3D drawings.

Looking For Help? / Re: FASTER DesignCAD REDRAWS
« Last post by Lar on May 23, 2018, 07:34:43 AM »

Sorry, concerning changing the font, I should have said to use vector fonts when working and switch back to true type fonts when printing. But that only works easily if all your tt fonts are the same type (different sizes doesn't matter).

If you put strips on different layers then you probably wouldn't have to change to vector fonts.

I didn't know dcad had slowed down so much. I did know something changed when my floating info box always jumped in front of my custom tool bars (and even many dialog boxes) when ever there was a regen.

 I'm waiting to hear what times the other guys with super systems get with dc2018. Honestly, though, I'll be hesitant to get a super system if I then can't halt regens by pressing Esc, which I'm assuming is a fault of the graphics card. I've had the Intel generic video card consistently for many a laptop over the recent years and I'm now thinking it's that card which allows the regens to be halted.


We are constantly looking for a good looking, readable font that is narrower ( more condensed), not wider, than Arial Narrow, so far, without success.
I once created my own vector font, back in the DOS days. I can't remember if it was a feature of dcad's or I did it through windows. Dcad didn't have the architectural font then so I created my own (I created all the caps and lower case letters and only the main symbols. Those bunch of never used symbols got left out). I even created a font for leaves, since drawing leaves on trees used up so much memory.
Looking For Help? / Re: FASTER DesignCAD REDRAWS
« Last post by jacklward on May 23, 2018, 06:50:48 AM »

Thanks for the info.  Assuming your using 2018 3D, it was good to see yours took almost 2 times longer than mine (15 vs 6.3), based on that, it is most likely DesignCAD and not my hardware. 

I changed the dimension and text fonts to vector and put them on different layers.
I'm back using 3D v20, which, on my system, is over 2 times faster than 3D 2018, (3.0 seconds vs 6.3 seconds).

With all layers turned ON, using vector dimensions and text, my redraw time using 3D v20 went from 3.0 seconds to 2.3 seconds a savings of 0.7 seconds.

Except for Architect, all the vector fonts I tried look terrible.
Unfortunately, the Architect Font's text is about 60% wider than Arial Narrow Font's text.  As you can see from our drawing, Arial Narrow barely fits in many places, so using Architect would require completely redoing most of our drawings which is not really an option. 

We are constantly looking for a good looking, readable font that is narrower ( more condensed), not wider, than Arial Narrow, so far, without success.

For us turning off dimensions and/or text really isn't an option, since most of the time we are editing entities and their respective dimensions and/or text at the same time.


My System Specs...
Windows 10 x64 (Latest Updates)
Intel Core i7-920 2.66ghz CPU
12gb DDR3 1600 Triple Chanel Memory
AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256bit GDDR5 Memory Graphics Card
Seiki 39" 4K Monitor (3840x2180)
Looking For Help? / Re: FASTER DesignCAD REDRAWS
« Last post by Lar on May 23, 2018, 05:22:14 AM »

Your true type dimensions is what's taking up all the time.

On my HP laptop it took 15 seconds to regen everything.<<update: my laptop generates about 2/3 of the drawing, pauses for a few seconds then restarts the regen. The 15 includes all that. If I time just a complete regen it takes somewhere around 6-7++ seconds>>

I changed all the text to vector fonts and it took 14 there abouts,

I then changed all the dimensions to vector fonts and it took 3+ <<single regen, no restarts, no pauses>>

I changed everything back to true type fonts then put all the text on 2 different layers and the dimensions on 1 other layer, turned off the dimensions layer and it took 2+ seconds.

Until we get Red's replacement incorporated I would just put things on different layers. After changing all the fonts back to true type I put the two top strips on a different layer, turned everything else off and it took -1.25 seconds (which actually felt pretty slow for the amount of visible content).

Note that, while my laptop is not at all fast, in Cinema 4D, with a 10+ meg 3D file exported from dcad, shaded redraws are instantaneous, orbits are real time, dynamic boole operations (eg, dragging an object to be subtracted through it's host) are real time, dynamic extrusions (eg, dragging points of the host spline so the extrusion changes) are real time. I was doing real time orbits back in the late 90 (ie, in the x86 days before the Pentium chip) with models exported from dcad to other apps. Dcad's display code juts never kept up with the rest of the industry.

Looking For Help? / Re: FASTER DesignCAD REDRAWS
« Last post by jacklward on May 23, 2018, 02:14:37 AM »

Attached is the file I used for testing. 

As far as I know there is nothing special about it.  It was just the first one I loaded.

I am running the latest trial version of DesignCAD 3D 2018 64 bit (downloaded 17 days ago).
IMSI is working with me to try the 2D 64 bit version but their activation codes would not work yesterday, hopefully they will today so I will have numbers for the 2D, which I doubt will be any different.
My machine is a stand alone desktop.  It is not on a network. Nothing in the background should be a problem.
My cpu temp, etc. are monitored and my cpu has more than adequate cooling.
I have not had any reason to run system bench mark tests recently but have many times in the past, and mine have always been near the top of similar systems so I doubt that is the problem.

My System Specs...
Windows 10 x64 (Latest Updates)
Intel Core i7-920 2.66ghz CPU
12gb DDR3 1600 Triple Chanel Memory
AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256bit GDDR5 Memory Graphics Card
Seiki 39" 4K Monitor (3840x2180)

Dr. PR,

Please try the attached file.
I hope you are right about my system being the problem, as I can fix that easily.
Please let us know if your machine really does get "near instantaneous" redraws with my small file.
With respect to my hardware being the problem, when I ran the same file using DesignCAD 3D 64 bit 2018 with RedSKD option selected my system actually did redraws instantaneous, I would think that was a pretty good test of my hardware, without RedSKD option selected it took 6.3 seconds.
I have not changed the recommended voltage, etc., basically, my system is all stock.
I have NOT installed OpenGL.  If you think that will help 2D redraws, please let me know where to get it and how you installed it, etc.
My RAM and CPU are unmodified (using default settings).

Rob S,

File is attached.  Please let me know your results.
My drawing has a lot of wide lines and text, as do all my Architectural plans.


File attached, please let me know your results.
My drawing also has hatch patterns as do all my architectural plans.

Thank you all for your interest in my problem.

Looking For Help? / Re: FASTER DesignCAD REDRAWS
« Last post by adriank on May 22, 2018, 07:56:52 PM »
I too was going to ask if you can post a drawing that results in your slow regen speeds.
For me, regenerating in 2D drawings is never a problem & I'm typically working with files from 1~10mb.

I checked a few old files for regen speed today - and all were under 2 sec, mostly so close to instantaneous as makes no difference.

I do know that some elements in drawings can take a long time to redraw, and I've trained myself over the years to never use them in my work.
Hatch patterns with very small scale can be a nightmare. (A line hatch scaled to look like a solid colour can cripple your machine)
Blocks. While they definitely save on file size when your file is closed, they seem to take up more memory when the file is open than if each repetition is exploded.
Vectored lines with too many points. If you combine arcs to form a continuous line the resulting mass of points can really blow out the file size.

As an example I tried 2 files that I know from experience suffer from redraw times.
The first is 96mb and is a government issued contour map for the whole of Phuket - 2.9m points & 5,600 blocks.
After the initial load that takes about 6 seconds it regenerates in less than 2, even when displaying the full drawing on screen.
The second is 9.1mb - a survey plan that has a huge number of trees drawn as blocks, and a heavily hatched 'ocean' graphic.
That takes about 11 seconds to regenerate. It has 237,866 points and 23,202 blocks.

So, a file nearly 10 times larger regenerates in nearly 1/10th of the time.
As I said, it'd help if we could see one of your problem files. Narrowing down if something in the file is causing the issue gives our programmers a target to try to fix.

Looking For Help? / Re: 16.3 patch does not work
« Last post by Rob S on May 22, 2018, 02:37:25 PM »
Seems to me you need 16.2 first before loading 16.3

If you don't have it, try searching online, you might find an old copy someplace.
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