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DrPR

Wow!

I just wanted to know how I could migrate to V20 from V16.

With things as they are I have a fully functioning CAD system (V16) so I will stick with this until things change. 

My main function is to Design instruments and I will now get on with that and look out for V21 to see if things have changed.

See you all next summer. Clive

Hi All,

I'm a novice user, but wondering about the following:
I do now put all my text onto 1 layer. I originally tried to set up text height on different text layers. So did make a layer for height 2.5, 3.5, 5.0 and so on. Then i discovered that textheight is universal and not layer bound. Why not?

It could make rescaling a lot easier, even by hand. Changing the parameter per layer is always easier than selecting and changing each input on its own. The same goes for dim objects like arrows which could scale along with the text.

Erik P

Hi, are you familiar with the "same as" feature located in the info box? If you have multiple styles of dimensions or text  within your drawing you can use this tool to match the properties of  different entities. also, if you have dimensions on separate layers that do not share the same properties you can use the selection filter to select and add multiple layers to a selection then change the properties within the info box. 

[object related properties]

supermono55,

Good idea! This is how new features happen. Now the question is how it should work?

1. Layers could have a text definition, just like line type and color. When text is created in the layer, or dragged to it, the text size, font, attributes would automatically change to the layer characteristics.

2. Layers could also have dimension properties. This might be a good idea. I always place dimensions on a separate layer. It would be really useful to just change the layer dimension properties to change how all dimensions appear in the layer.

For example, suppose you create a lot of dimensions in English units on one layer. Then you could duplicate those dimensions and move the copy to another layer. Then you could change the layer's dimension Unit Multiplier to change everything to metric units. You could even add a layer suffix line "mm."

Note: users MUST be able to disable all layer attribute "features."

****

Layers have a somewhat schizophrenic character in CAD programs. The idea of layer properties applies perfectly to GIS and mapping software, where you want countour lines on one or two layers, water on another, trees on another, etc. In these cases color and line style by layer are the norm. Text style by layer would also be nice.

In 3D mechanical CAD work layers are used for different parts of an assembly, and the primary usefulness of layers is to be able to lock the layer so the parts cannot be edited, or disable the layers so the parts cannot be seen. You may have parts of different materials, such as brass, steel, and aluminum, different finishes or paint colors, etc. on a single layer. The last thing you want is for all parts on a layer to be locked into a single style.

For object related properties layer styles are an anathema! Object properties (material, color, etc.) should not change as the objects are moved from layer to layer. Layer styles are good for drawing related properties like dimensions and text, and being able to define a layer style would be very useful.

Dr PR,

I think the "I P" button should just take it back to the "Initial Position" when the drawing opened. I think the other 3 arrow buttons would be pretty easy to use to go back to any of the previous 90 degree positions. The exception of course, is if the rotation was done at an angle other than a 90 deg. increment by use of the degree dialog. In that case you could still use the "I P" button to get back to where you started when the drawing was opened.

Also, there's always still the Set Working Plane command, which I would still continue to use for some things.

DT,

I agree. It should work like "Set Working Plane" so you have a "go back" option. This gets tricky because you might want to use this several times in a row to look at one view, then another, etc. So, does the "go back" return to the original view before the first rotation, or does it just go back one rotation?

Thanks guys.

I know that I saw an explanation some time in the distant past when I was reading through a Reference Manual, but I work mostly in 3D and never got in the habit of using them and forgot what they were for.

corlett,

There are a number of quirks about DesignCAD (actually, every program I have used) that you learn to work around.

The difference between left click and right click (gravity snap) object selection is interesting. In both cases the program has to find the closest object to the cursor. You would think this was the same task, but why is gravity snap MUCH faster than left click? If DT can figure that one out he might discover a problem that is slowing down other processes in the program.

I decided to repeat these tests in DesignCAD V15.3 and V17.2.

1. 120 copies of dimensions - no noticeable difference between left and right click selections. Selection was instantaneous.

2. 1200 copies - no noticeable difference between left and right click selections. Selection was almost instantaneous. Less than 1 second when Dcad.exe and csrss.exe used 50% of hyperthreaded CPU time (saturation).

3. 12,000 copies  - no noticeable difference between left and right click selections. Selection was almost instantaneous. Less than 1 second when Dcad.exe and csrss.exe used 50% of hyperthreaded CPU time (saturation).

Again, Dcad.exe and csrss.exe consume 50% of hyperthreaded CPU time while the screen is being redrawn (selection). Since there are two hyperthreaded processes running (Windows and DesignCAD) this represents CPU saturation.

Also, in both versions, moving the mouse does not saturate the CPU - in fact, csrss.exe shows no activity with mouse movement.

Also, the Info Box opens instantaneously in both V15 and V17 when all 12,000 copies are selected. It takes 6 seconds in V20.

I saved the 12,000 dimension array from V17.2 and opened it in V20.0. The V17 file was 7.3 Mbytes and the V20 file was 7.2 Mbytes. Apparently the slowdown is not caused by more points in dimensions or larger file sizes. However, left click three times in V20.0 took about a minute and a half to complete!

****

Clearly, there was a big screw up in V18, and it continues into later versions. This happened about the time IMSI started farming programming out to Elbonia. The most noticeable and objectionable manifestation is the EXTREME slowness of opening the Info Box when a large number of objects are selected. This can take ten minutes or more in a 100 Mbyte file! As it happens, this is when TABS on the right side of the screen were introduced, with the Info Box on one of them. Also, this is when dimensions were reworked to be mostly AutoCRUD compatible. A real mess!

I suspect the problem is associated with the screen redraw routines. There are several known problems here. Everything is redrawn twice in all windows. With all four 3D windows open selections take four times as long as for a single window. Even things like zooming in one window causes all the other windows to redraw - totally unnecessary! You can improve speed by closing all but one window or zooming unnecessary windows into a blank portion of the drawing (so there is nothing to redraw). Turn off Point Select mode when working with large drawings (a severe handicap when working).

Another intresting point - if you zoom a window into a blank portion of the drawing redraw time is instantaneous. So it is not the process of determining what should appear on the scree that is the slowdown - this is the same whether the screen is zoomed in to show nothing or out to show everything. Again, the culpret seems to be associated with screen redraw. However, it amy not be the redraw process itself, since opening the Info Box does not cause screen redraw (or does it?).

I also suspect that the dimension text plays a big part in the slowdown. In a separate display refresh test (posted elsewhere on the forum) text had a large effect on display refresh time. I haven't experimented with font types. However, the Info Box slowdown is not related to fonts or dimensions. It happens in large file with no text or dimensions.

****

For what it is worth, I haven't seen much interference from the network connection on the XP machine. However, periodically the network software and email program will make an inquiry from the server to see if there is any new mail. This can slow things down if there is a lot of new email or large attachments. Unplugging the cable only increases the delay because the program will repeat the attempt to make the connection. The only way to prevent this is to shut down all network related software. This means temporarily disabling every network related process from the system management software in the Control Panel. It should all restart when the machine is rebooted.

Again, having said this, the network connection really isn't a problem most of the time. However, if something unexpectedly takes a really long time during a test, repeat the operation just to be sure there wasn't outside interference.

****

Be careful comparing CPU saturation on different machines, especially when the "hyperthread" smoke and mirrors is involved. We (forum members) have noticed significant timing differences between similar machines. This has been hashed through several times, and all proposed hypotheses to explain the differences have proven inadequate. Figure this one out and you get a gold star!

An important thing to consider: should you be able to rotate back to the original settings?

DT,

I think that is an important part of this feature. That's what I was after with the "I P" (Initial Position) button. Hitting it would position the drawing as it was when it was initially opened. If that needs to happen about the origin (at least by default) that would be fine with me.

An important thing to consider: should you be able to rotate back to the original settings? This will be an important aspect to consider when doing center of rotation. My first instinct is to rotate about the origin (at least by default) , so if you rotate say 90 degrees, you can rotate back 90 degrees the other way and everything is back in its original coordinates.

It looks to me like all the points are coplanar. If you just need to rotate it back into parallel with the XZ plane, set three handles on the plane, then use the Move command (with fixed scale) to move it back onto the plane.