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General DesignCAD Topics => Looking For Help? => Topic started by: WarrenKinney01 on June 22, 2008, 07:12:42 AM

Title: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: WarrenKinney01 on June 22, 2008, 07:12:42 AM
15 years of commercial design experience and I am seriously behind on my commitments right now. So in this time of vibrant residential construction, I am considering some residential offers. That speaks volumes about me.
I realize that I need some (3-D) software that will put a complex roof on whatever floorplan the customer wants (ideally.) I trial drove Chief Architect X1 and it is spectacular. It also has way too many features and a price tag of over $2,100. I do not need to be able to change the color of the chair in the virtual bedroom. I do need help with the math and the framing of the complex roof designs. Any ideas please?

Thanks Again,
Warren Kinney
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Rob S on June 22, 2008, 08:07:41 AM

What happens here is the designer draws the shape he wants, and the wood truss company figures out how to frame it.  It is totally amazing what they can do.

Designcad is perfectly adequate for drawing the shape of the roof in 2D and 3D model.  It could also be used to stick-frame the roof model one rafter at a time, if you felt the need.

However, DCAD does not, and I can't imagine any "inexpensive " program knowing how to, frame a complex roof and draw it for you.

In short, if you want something to do this more or less automatically, I have not heard of such a thing.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: prl on June 22, 2008, 08:39:32 AM
I would never trust Chief Architect or VectorWorks to structurally frame anything.  It may look impressive to the untrained eye but they do some strange things.  The only people that can accurately and safely frame a roof truss system, is a roof truss manufacturer.  They use industry specific software that quickly does the design, layout and obviously also produces machine files for fabrication.  Plus they seal their work.

If you are an architect or designer, your drawings should merely spell out the shape profiles, pitches, overhangs etc.  Now if you are doing a traditional field framed roof,  the design burden is on you.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Rick V. on June 22, 2008, 11:24:56 AM
Rob & prl are right about truss design.

If you need to design rafters, beams, etc. and are comfortable with the engineering aspects, Strucalc is excellent design software.

DesignCAD 3D Max is excellent for complex roof shapes. You can:
snap a line around the floor plan perimeter corners,
draw a parallel line in 2D however far out the eaves will be (adjust segments as needed),
go to 3D & adjust the height of the new eave line(s),
create a simple rectangular plane at the proper pitch from one segment of the eave line,
make copies of the plane and rotate them as needed placing them on additional eave line segments,
stretch the ends into place (or move multiple points into place) as needed,
use the surface intersect line command to find out where to adjust the edges of planes at their intersections.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Pearco on June 22, 2008, 12:26:17 PM
Warren;

If a pretty picture is what you need, the Chief Architect is one of the best. SketchUp is very good for a lot less money. Most byers can only see the picture so let the Truss people do their thing.
Pretty picture = get the job. Good
Truss people get the liability. Priceless
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Lar on June 26, 2008, 06:41:06 AM
If you have have the design already (and not wanting the software to totally create it for you) this may interest you...

I am developing a process that generates 3d objects from 2d plans and elevations and your roof sounds like a good trial test. If you can upload the plan of the roof (and only the roof, for now) and at least one elevation I can probably create your roof.

Normally you would provide all the rafters, hips and ridge boards but whatever you have for now I will work with for the purpose of this trial. The result would be a dcad 3d file. Other formats can be generated but a genuine designcad is best if you are working in designcad, since way less surface facets will be generated and designcad solids will be created as opposed to a bunch of free planes.

Lar
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: SciGraphics on June 26, 2008, 07:36:36 PM
Lar: Are you doing what was called, in the 'olden days', lofting? That is taking two plan views, usually side and top, and using complex geometric gyrations, produce a three quarter view? I'm curious.

Jim A.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: WarrenKinney01 on June 27, 2008, 04:26:50 AM
This all started with a friends napkin drawing. His dream house. Huge garage, radius stairs to a 1/2 second bedroom floor, with hall open on both sides (18 ft. high ceilings) to the 1st floor great room, living room and entry. With my background, I incorporated considerable steel to carry these loads. From the information I have gotten to this point, I believe I must need to now take this floorplan to the truss manufacturer and turn him loose. That being said, I fiddled with the roof design by myself a bit and ended up with nothing that I considered to be usable. Real work is now in the way, so this house deal is on the backburner.

Thanks,
Warren Kinney
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Lar on June 28, 2008, 07:28:41 AM
Sci,

I am producing a 3d model from 2d plans and elevations.

I've heard it asked for many times on this forum and I sort of discovered the possibility hidden in existing software... and yes, it can work in dcad.

I use it myself now but it is not totally ready for the public. I would have to provide you with a file with certain layer names and some instructions (this is the part that's not ready), you draw the right things on the right layers, send it back to me and I send you back a 3d model. If everything is drawn properly it would take a few minutes to produce the 3d model. Actually, a model will be produced no matter what you draw, but it won't be what you expect if you don't draw the 2d correctly and according to instructions. It doesn't take a lot of precision, just accuracy in lining up things in the plan with the relative things in the elevations.

Right now I can reliably produce the model in dcd, dwg, dxf and c4d. Other formats can be produced but since I don't use those softwares I can't say how 'proper' they would turn out.

Lar
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: WarrenKinney01 on June 28, 2008, 10:14:18 AM
Would you do that on this forum, or do you need my e-mail address?

Warren
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: prl on June 28, 2008, 10:30:07 AM
Lar, how about a preview picture of something you've done?  Before and after.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Lar on June 29, 2008, 10:29:12 AM
Check out the attached image, prl. There's no "before and after", per se, since the 2d stuff is not destroyed...

Lar

Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: prl on June 29, 2008, 11:45:28 AM
So how you doing this man!!  Do we need to lower the "cone of silence" before you can tell me? You've been awfully quite lately.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Lar on June 29, 2008, 12:03:02 PM
It's a simple theory but somewhat complicated to execute, due to certain realities in the existing software (the same way we create a BasicCAD macro to get dcad to do more than it normally can). What I'm doing is ironing out the complex parts so others would just draw in 2d, as most people can.

Warren, you can just attach the dcad 2d file on this forum. I will fix it as necessary (since I'm not providing any instructions at the moment) and re-attach the fixed 2d and the resulting 3d.

Lar
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Pearco on June 29, 2008, 02:48:37 PM
Lar;

Very impressive. My hat is of to you.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: WarrenKinney01 on June 29, 2008, 02:59:46 PM
Lar,
I keep trying to attach this dcd file. I have now reduced it to 2.7 meg. Is that to big. I keep getting this:
Your attachment couldn't be saved. This might happen because it took too long to upload or the file is bigger than the server will allow.

Please consult your server administrator for more information.

More Help Please,
Warren
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: bdeck on June 29, 2008, 03:04:28 PM
Hello Lar,

Very nice work.

BD

Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Bob P on June 29, 2008, 03:59:06 PM
Warren,

Try zipping it.  Might reduce the size by a factor of 4.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: WarrenKinney01 on June 29, 2008, 05:11:26 PM
Floorplan, and some elevations.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Dempsey on June 29, 2008, 06:54:12 PM
Lar,

You have whetted my appetite and I look forward to the day that the secrets will be revealed.
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: Lar on June 30, 2008, 07:00:03 PM
Warren,

I did not realise that there was more than just the floor plan until tonight. You have no roof plan (I was not sure you wanted an auto plan or 3d from an existing plan) but it can be worked out from the elevations.

I will have to use this file as an example of how to one will be setup before the 3d is generated. The 3d itself would only take a few minutes, but that's after the 2d file is setup for it.

Lar
Title: Re: COMPLEX RESIDENTIAL ROOF DESIGN SOFTWARE
Post by: WarrenKinney01 on July 01, 2008, 04:13:52 PM
Lar,

Layer 7 shows feeble exterior elevations. If it will help, I can knock off the roofs and simply show the exterior walls. I do a lot of 3-d work, so I can easily show you those walls in 3 dimension form. Will any of that help.

Thanks,
Warren